Time for a change at Buckeye Local

[lastquarter]

Wooster, it's obvious that you have a passion for Buckeye. I know that you have stepped up and tried to make a positive difference in the Buckeye district. I'm by no means taking a side in this conversation. I don't have enough knowledge to even have an informed opinion. I just wanted to note that you deserve acknowledgement for trying and caring. Buckeye has had their share of black eyes when it comes to outside influence into their sports programs. It's good to know that some good people get involved for the right reasons. Once again, not taking a side. I respect some of the posters who are voicing their opinion which is different from yours. Best of luck to the Panthers.

[Wooster87]

Wooster, it's obvious that you have a passion for Buckeye. I know that you have stepped up and tried to make a positive difference in the Buckeye district. I'm by no means taking a side in this conversation. I don't have enough knowledge to even have an informed opinion. I just wanted to note that you deserve acknowledgement for trying and caring. Buckeye has had their share of black eyes when it comes to outside influence into their sports programs. It's good to know that some good people get involved for the right reasons. Once again, not taking a side. I respect some of the posters who are voicing their opinion which is different from yours. Best of luck to the Panthers.

Thank you for your comment. I do care about the district, very much actually. Graduate of the district, former coach in the district from '89 - '07, former BOE member. Caring doesn't mean telling people what they want to hear, it is about telling them the truth. You cannot start to fix a problem until you admit what the problem is. Football isn't the only sport struggling, if it was, then I would agree that you focus on the coaching. Basketball is really struggling, is that because Haberfield is a bad coach? Absolutely not, he is very knowledgeable about basketball, comes from a basketball family. Grandfather was a legendary coach. Wrestling is struggling, is that because Nestor is a bad coach, no. Again very knowledgeable but not even enough kids out to fill a 14 weight class roster. You can say the same with Volleyball, girls basketball, track (lack of speed which also affects other sports), Golf (not enough interest to fill a team).
Think back to the 80's and early 90's in this district. The park was packed every night all summer long with young guys playing basketball against the "old guys" which made us better. You would see pick up football games in the lot behind Convenient which is now where the Dollar Store exists. Can't tell you how many pick up baseball games we played at the pump house. Those of you that are 40+ know what I am describing. You lived it. We didn't just show up in August for football and expect to be able to compete. We went to camps, we would shovel snow on the court at the park just to shoot around when school was canceled. We would just go outside and throw the football around with each other. None of us realized at the time that we were really making ourselves better, we were just having fun. We realize that now, and I talk to guys all the time who say those very same things.
Drive by the park on any summer day, maybe 1 or 2 kids shooting around but the majority of the time empty. Rosters on little league teams, bronco, pony, colt teams scrounging for players if they can even field a team at all.
But yet, we have those people who think that when a kid shows up in August who hasn't done anything since last November to get better and puts on a set of shoulder pads, that he and the other 30 kids who have done little to nothing to make themselves better should win 7 or more games a year. That somehow the coaching staff should be able to waive a magic wand and make a bunch of 5 ft nothing, 150 pound kids who have the muscle mass of a Jr. High kid into a well oiled football machine. Same thing in basketball, you can't decide to show up in November having barely touched a ball since March and not expect to score less than 10 points in a half.
We live in an "everyone gets a trophy" world and have since about 2000. When a kid only gets the playing time they have earned, instead of what they and their parents think they are entitled to, then we call BOE members or demand meetings with the AD and coach, or the kid just quits and the parent supports it. Or, as is the case at BL, the coach tries to make everyone happy and appeases those who don't deserve appeased so they don't get fired at the end of the season. This is the CULTURE that I described earlier.

Unfortunately, until this attitude changes, things will continue to go the way they are. It is a shame, because you do have those kids who actually get it and understand they can't just show up and expect to be successful. Sadly though they are the minority and when they see those who don't do the right things get appeased, then what message does that send to them? It isn't the coaches that allow this, they are stuck in the middle of parents who think their kids are entitled to playing time and BOE members who only want to make everyone happy. No one wants to hold anyone accountable, so what do we do? We say we have bad coaches.
I will stop ranting, even though I could say a lot more, because it falls on deaf ears. This district will make a comeback once people start holding "themselves" accountable and not just point fingers at coaches and teachers (which is a whole other topic - because surely it isn't my kids fault he has a D in the class, must be a bad teacher).

[Wooster87]

First OPPORTUNITY is the key word. The school does not have to hire an internal candidate. Many prefer to just because they are already in the school. You have to post the job internally for two weeks prior to external posting. If the school does have to hire internal candidates, that means it is laid out in the teacher contract with the BOE. Opportunity does not mean guaranteed job.

You are right that the BOE doesn't have to hire the in-house candidate. However what they DO have to do is publicly put on the record why the in-house candidate is either not considered qualified or they MUST put the in-house applicant up for vote. They can vote "no", but there must be a vote in a public BOE meeting. The arbitrator asked to see the Board minutes showing the in-house candidate was voted on or there was a BOE spokesman who put it in the record why the BOE found the in house candidate wasn't qualified. When that couldn't be produced, the district lost the arbitration and had to put the softball job back up on the agenda. Most BOE members will not go against a teacher publicly with a "no" vote, part of the telling people want they want to hear mentality.

The posting is only required to up for 10 days, not 2 weeks.

Again, people need to have all the facts about how these votes and hirings must be done. Come to a BOE meeting and ask. They will tell you.
Truthfully, that was probably my problem as a BOE member, I wouldn't take those phone calls from disgruntled parents and I didn't just tell people what they wanted to hear. I told them to what I felt was the truth, instead of just what I thought would appease them. I would refer them to the Head Coach and the AD, that it wasn't appropriate for a BOE member to interfere. This wasn't a popular viewpoint of my fellow BOE members who wanted their fingers in everything. I also would defend a coaches actions if I felt they were right which isn't what a parent who is upset wants to hear. doing what you think is right instead of just what people want to hear usually dooms people to 1 term.

[Rookie]

chest-bump

[ruralohio]

Having all the information usually makes for a better understanding of what happened starting when Barsch was hired. To begin with both times that the job has opened since Pobolisb the posting listed a minimum qualification to be hired as having "previous Head Coaching experience at the Varsity level". Only Barsch had previously been a head coach (when he taught in Kentucky). So regardless of who applied, he was the only one who met all of the qualifications as well as having the backing of Pobolisb and the rest of the staff that was there. When Pest was bired, the same minimum qualification was listed on the posting. In that Pest was interim HC while Barsch was recovering from his illness, he again was the only one who met all of the qualifications. You also had the state law issue that the district had just lost an arbitration over and was then starting into a second chapter of that.

Old saying in coaching....."it isn't the X's and O's, it is the Jimmies and Joe's" that determine your season.

Since you were on the board and have a better understanding of the qualifications, why doesn't the board change the minimum qualification to "previous experience at the varsity level?" I am sure there is some young assistant coach that wants to take a chance at being a head coach. Honestly, by keeping the Head Coaching experience in the qualification, you mostly attract the coaches that did not have success at other programs. Certainly, there are head coaches at other schools that were successful and quit or were not rehired, but the chances of getting those coaches are slim. BL is not a top tier program in Ohio where you need at least three years as a head coach to apply for the job.

Additionally, as a graduate of BL, those that start are based on nepotism. Certainly, there are those that deserve to be starting as they are the best for the position. However, there are students walking those halls that are better than those that went out for the team- I had several tell me they refused to go out because they didn't have the name to play. I believe I could assemble a team of students that didn't go out and beat the varsity team.

I have seen football programs, currently successful, that were in similar situations as BL with losing records before achieving winning records year after year. Clearly, there is a problem within the system that needs to be addressed. Until we address that problem, BL will continue to struggle and be the laughing stock of football.

[secretstud96]

Since you were on the board and have a better understanding of the qualifications, why doesn't the board change the minimum qualification to "previous experience at the varsity level?" I am sure there is some young assistant coach that wants to take a chance at being a head coach. Honestly, by keeping the Head Coaching experience in the qualification, you mostly attract the coaches that did not have success at other programs. Certainly, there are head coaches at other schools that were successful and quit or were not rehired, but the chances of getting those coaches are slim. BL is not a top tier program in Ohio where you need at least three years as a head coach to apply for the job.

Additionally, as a graduate of BL, those that start are based on nepotism. Certainly, there are those that deserve to be starting as they are the best for the position. However, there are students walking those halls that are better than those that went out for the team- I had several tell me they refused to go out because they didn't have the name to play. I believe I could assemble a team of students that didn't go out and beat the varsity team.

I have seen football programs, currently successful, that were in similar situations as BL with losing records before achieving winning records year after year. Clearly, there is a problem within the system that needs to be addressed. Until we address that problem, BL will continue to struggle and be the laughing stock of football.

That is total crap. This is always an excuse by people that have never played a sport, especially BL people.
"LiL Jimmy doesn't play because the coach doesn't like him or his name is Lil' Jimmy he has no chance to play."

If there are kids roaming the hallways that are better than the players on a team.. why don't they want to prove it. These type of kids are not motivated to achieve.. they would rather talk about I coulda but... insert excuse.

[ruralohio]

That is total crap. This is always an excuse by people that have never played a sport, especially BL people.
"LiL Jimmy doesn't play because the coach doesn't like him or his name is Lil' Jimmy he has no chance to play."

If there are kids roaming the hallways that are better than the players on a team.. why don't they want to prove it. These type of kids are not motivated to achieve.. they would rather talk about I coulda but... insert excuse.

Of those that refused to go out, I do recall at least half of them play football at either in middle school or high school. The remaining few I would have to research. They simply decided to try another sport where they were virtually guaranteed to start or focus on academics for the sake of their future.

[Wooster87]

That is total crap. This is always an excuse by people that have never played a sport, especially BL people.
"LiL Jimmy doesn't play because the coach doesn't like him or his name is Lil' Jimmy he has no chance to play."

If there are kids roaming the hallways that are better than the players on a team.. why don't they want to prove it. These type of kids are not motivated to achieve.. they would rather talk about I coulda but... insert excuse.

100% agree with you. I coached at BL from 1989 when it was Southwest through 2007 with only a few years when I couldn't coach due to work, but I continued to scout and stayed connected to the staffs. I coached at all levels through those years. 1 yr at the Jr High level, 1 yr at the Freshman level, and 11 years at the JV / Varsity level. I can tell you with absolute certainty that NO ONE started or even received playing because of their name. That was the excuse used by those players who thought they were better than they really were, and by their parents who couldn't accept the fact that their kid wasn't a star.
As far as kids walking the halls who were better than those playing, that is 100% BS. Not once during the years I coached was there someone "walking the halls" who would have had an impact on the team. Maybe those kids thought they were better or were waiting for someone to beg them to come out, but that wasn't going to happen. Whenever you coax or push a kid to come out, then they believe they are entitled to things without having to work for them.
Those kinds of comments both reflect the "culture" I have been talking about that needs to change and also confirms that you were one of those kids who didn't get much playing time and now you have an axe to grind and you make yourself sound ridiculous and juvenile.

[BudDe]

That is total crap. This is always an excuse by people that have never played a sport, especially BL people.
"LiL Jimmy doesn't play because the coach doesn't like him or his name is Lil' Jimmy he has no chance to play."

If there are kids roaming the hallways that are better than the players on a team.. why don't they want to prove it. These type of kids are not motivated to achieve.. they would rather talk about I coulda but... insert excuse.

I agree.....There isn't any superstars or even low flying stars walking the hallways. BL has a bunch of boys about the same height, same speed,same build that can only be separated by work ethic and heart.....Not to many 2nd generation athletes most have moved away to find jobs.

[Rookie]

100% agree with you. I coached at BL from 1989 when it was Southwest through 2007 with only a few years when I couldn't coach due to work, but I continued to scout and stayed connected to the staffs. I coached at all levels through those years. 1 yr at the Jr High level, 1 yr at the Freshman level, and 11 years at the JV / Varsity level. I can tell you with absolute certainty that NO ONE started or even received playing because of their name. That was the excuse used by those players who thought they were better than they really were, and by their parents who couldn't accept the fact that their kid wasn't a star.
As far as kids walking the halls who were better than those playing, that is 100% BS. Not once during the years I coached was there someone "walking the halls" who would have had an impact on the team. Maybe those kids thought they were better or were waiting for someone to beg them to come out, but that wasn't going to happen. Whenever you coax or push a kid to come out, then they believe they are entitled to things without having to work for them.
Those kinds of comments both reflect the "culture" I have been talking about that needs to change and also confirms that you were one of those kids who didn't get much playing time and now you have an axe to grind and you make yourself sound ridiculous and juvenile.

95% agree. However, there have been kids that did not participate a few years and when friends, coaches, etc encouraged them - they were a big help to those teams. With the state of the program, Buckeye needs FRESH and NEW to get the kids back in the game. Regardless what anyone says - that approach works at all levels . . . including backing from the community, businesses, alumni, etc. As bad as some of the former North, South and West football teams were back in the day, the support and pride never died. It is a shame how this program has crashed and burned in such a short time.

[Rookie]

I agree.....There isn't any superstars or even low flying stars walking the hallways. BL has a bunch of boys about the same height, same speed,same build that can only be separated by work ethic and heart.....Not to many 2nd generation athletes most have moved away to find jobs.

Perhaps not superstars but kids that can contribute and add some depth. With regard to 2nd generations . . . I can’t count how many times, I have heard BL coaches use this excuse and it makes me want to scream. Sure there are some families that have had multiple generations of good athletes, some families that may have had one good athlete and some that have none. I know of several families where the mother, father, and prior generations did not have an athletic background and have one or more kids that are very athletic and vice versa.

[Wooster87]

There are a couple of problems in getting someone "fresh and new". One problem is to get this person, you need an open teaching position unless the person isn't a teacher, and that will be unlikely. You want the Head Coach in the building during the day. The second and probably the biggest problem is the administration (ie: BOE reputation) is so bad that no one outside the district wants to deal with them. Then the reputation that has developed regarding parents calling BOE members is another factor that will deter applicants. Coaches talk to each other all the time at recruiting nights, scrimmages, etc and both the BL BOE and the parents have a bad image. I get asked all the time by coaches (both HC's and asst's) "is it really as bad at Buckeye as we hear it is?" Or I get "it is hard to win with no size, speed, or strength". This image then unfortunately transfers to the kids because when you have minimal participation in off season training, the vicious cycle continues.

[Rookie]

There are a couple of problems in getting someone "fresh and new". One problem is to get this person, you need an open teaching position unless the person isn't a teacher, and that will be unlikely. You want the Head Coach in the building during the day. The second and probably the biggest problem is the administration (ie: BOE reputation) is so bad that no one outside the district wants to deal with them. Then the reputation that has developed regarding parents calling BOE members is another factor that will deter applicants. Coaches talk to each other all the time at recruiting nights, scrimmages, etc and both the BL BOE and the parents have a bad image. I get asked all the time by coaches (both HC's and asst's) "is it really as bad at Buckeye as we hear it is?" Or I get "it is hard to win with no size, speed, or strength". This image then unfortunately transfers to the kids because when you have minimal participation in off season training, the vicious cycle continues.

1. So there have not been any teaching positions open in the last five years?
2. The past two Head Coaches have been in the building. Don’t buy it.
3. BOE bad reputation. That’s with most school districts. IMO I believe that issue is more 75% in-house candidates/athletic committee/teacher union and 25% BOE. That combined with the lack of respect they demonstrate so publically and amongst themselves breeds that reputation and “culture.” While some parents have unrealistic beliefs of their kid’s talents, they have and will always defend them. It happens at all levels and every school. It’s all in the way it is addressed.
4. Kids talent, size, speed and strength. That’s up to the kids to work on with the encouragement of their mentors to include parents, coaches, and teammates.

Prior to the consolidation that was to save money by closing schools, eliminating staff, etc., the district paid for three head football coaches, numerous assistant coaches at the varsity level and approximately six head coaches and several assistants at the three junior high schools.

The football program at most schools is the financial backbone for all athletic programs to include concession sales, parking, etc. Given the attendance at WWII Memorial Stadium the past several years, the once revenue/profit now has to be an expense/loss for the district/athletic program. The concession stands are empty and volunteers standing around. The pay parking lot is about the same.

The bottom line is HS football programs have become a business that can provide revenue to support other programs, district, community, and help enhance the facilities. Currently it is a lose-lose situation. There is no doubt that by hiring a solid, new, fresh head coach to revive the program the district can justify the expense with the revenue gained through ticket sales, concessions, parking, etc.

The kids deserve the best.

[light_horse_harry]

1. So there have not been any teaching positions open in the last five years?
2. The past two Head Coaches have been in the building. Don’t buy it.
3. BOE bad reputation. That’s with most school districts. IMO I believe that issue is more 75% in-house candidates/athletic committee/teacher union and 25% BOE. That combined with the lack of respect they demonstrate so publically and amongst themselves breeds that reputation and “culture.” While some parents have unrealistic beliefs of their kid’s talents, they have and will always defend them. It happens at all levels and every school. It’s all in the way it is addressed.
4. Kids talent, size, speed and strength. That’s up to the kids to work on with the encouragement of their mentors to include parents, coaches, and teammates.

Prior to the consolidation that was to save money by closing schools, eliminating staff, etc., the district paid for three head football coaches, numerous assistant coaches at the varsity level and approximately six head coaches and several assistants at the three junior high schools.

The football program at most schools is the financial backbone for all athletic programs to include concession sales, parking, etc. Given the attendance at WWII Memorial Stadium the past several years, the once revenue/profit now has to be an expense/loss for the district/athletic program. The concession stands are empty and volunteers standing around. The pay parking lot is about the same.

The bottom line is HS football programs have become a business that can provide revenue to support other programs, district, community, and help enhance the facilities. Currently it is a lose-lose situation. There is no doubt that by hiring a solid, new, fresh head coach to revive the program the district can justify the expense with the revenue gained through ticket sales, concessions, parking, etc.

The kids deserve the best.

You need to just face the facts, the well has run dry. What has the Junior High program done lately? Everything begins at the younger level, what is being done to develop the future? Nothing, anyone who wants to be an athlete is leaving, and who can blame them. It would take a new coach at least six years to turn this things around. People you might as well face it as Dandy Don sang

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqICPPPFUt1IAugj7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Don+Meredith+Turn+Out+the+Lights&vid=1418250daf6dd6b19142faa684f7e308&l=00%3A32&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.608020881143431530%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DCtGxusvUT3k&tit=DON+MEREDITH+-+Turn+out+the+lights...+the+party%26%2339%3Bs+over+-+YouTube4.flv&c=0&sigr=11bsh1jes&sigt=129li10tt&sigi=11rgmehos&age=1322102637&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=mcafee&tt=b

But perhaps this is what you should tell the BOE

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=monday+night+football+number+1&vid=e1672efa0744b2262f1d6be38779fbe5&l=00%3A33&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.608045465540428596%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQOyhKkAKOFk&tit=Houston+Oilers+fan&c=0&sigr=11bacgn96&sigt=10i5cacao&sigi=11r9m80tn&ct=p&age=1216041557&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=mcafee&tt=b

[Wooster87]

There hasn't always been jobs open, you obviously aren't aware of have now many teaching positions have been cut in the last 15 years. As the enrollment has decreased so have the teaching positions. There have been ateast 10 positions cut in the that time span. You also don't take into account that the opening has to be in the subject area that whatever coach you hire is certified to teach. You can't have someone certified in History come in and teach English.
Who do you think BL could hire? You seem to think you know what all the problems are, but your solutions are all vague suggestions like "we need young and new" or "something fresh". All you want to do is focus on coaches. IT ISN'T THE X's AND O's, get that through your head. You could have Steubenville's staff at BL and you might win 2 games. PERIOD. Be clear as to what I am saying, we have some kids who work hard in the weightroom and are committed, however they are the minority when it comes to the team as a whole. All you have to do is watch pregame warm ups when the teams have only their game pants and t-shirts on to know why it is difficult to win. BL's kids look like Jr High players compared to the teams they play. They are just physically smaller, less muscular, and much slower.
Old saying in sports - Hard work will beat Talent when Talent doesn't work hard. If you apply thT to the situation at BL, what talent you have had in the last 5-6 years HASN'T COME CLOSE TO WORKING HARD, and I know this first hand because I have come to practices and have seen those kids no where to be found in the weightroom. I can run off a list of at least 10 kids who had the ability to maybe play at the Div III level in college. How many are there? NONE because they didn't care enough or work hard enough to get there. Coaches can't make players work hard, that is a myth. If coaches have to coach effort, you can't win.
The answers to getting this turned around isn't in who is steering the boat, the answer lies within those ROWING the boat.